Andrew Dymski on Becoming an Authority by Podcasting

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Today, on the Early-Stage Founder Show, I’m talking with Andrew Dymski, the CEO and Co-Founder at DoInbound, a company that provides the software, processes, and training to grow your inbound agency.

I spoke with Andrew’s co-founder, Gray MacKenzie on Hubstaff’s Agency Advantage Podcast, and absolutely loved what they were doing to help agencies grow, but as I dug deeper it became clear just how good these guys are at growing and building their own business.

I’m also a bit podcast obsessed and was blown away that they’ve been able to put out 4 different podcast series to cover all of the information their target market could need.

Today we dive into why Andrew found it worth the investment to produce 4 podcasts, how they use those podcasts to drive their content marketing, and how they make sure all of that interest actually helps increase their bottom line.

If you’re struggling to reach your target market or feel like your content isn’t standing out from the crowd, then this is the episode for you.

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Topics covered:

  • (00:01:30):  How did your startup ‘DoInbound’ come about, and what does it do? 
  • (00:04:30):  How did you go from the idea to creating your first idea to your first product?
  • (00:06:50):  Shifting from first product, GuavaBox, to DoInbound.
  • (00:08:05):  Implementing experience of inbound marketing into DoInbound product
  • (00:09:00):  Podcasting and creating rich content through interviews
  • (00:14:0):  Repurposing podcast audio to other formats
  • (00:17:25):  Turning a podcast listener into a customer
  • (00:19:45):  Managing 4 podcasts at once
  • (00:22:15):  Q: Mistakes to avoid? A: Template the interviews and prompt interviewees for headshots etc quickly.
  • (00:26:55):  Q: Advice for founders? A: Identify the audience’s niche and their pain. Create "bingeable" content.
  • (00:29:05):  What do you currently spend too much time doing?
  • (00:29:45):  What needs more time spent on it?
  • (00:30:05):  What do you hope to accomplish in the next quarter?
  • (00:30:45):  What is the ultimate goal for DoInbound?
  • (00:33:00):  Where to go to find more?

Resources mentioned:

Hubstaff’s Agency Advantage Podcast
GuavaBox
Adobe Audition
PodBean
Trello

Where to learn more:

To hear more from Andrew, check out his website, DoInbound.com. You can listen to his longest-running podcast series ‘Inbound Agency Journey’, and you can follow him on Twitter on @AndrewJDymski.

Transcript:

ANDY: Andrew, thanks so much for coming on the show today. I really appreciate it.

ANDREW: Hey, Andy, I’m excited to be here. Thanks for the invite, and I’m looking forward to digging in and sharing what we can with the audience, here.

ANDY: Absolutely. So, to start off, how did your startup DoInbound come about?

ANDREW: It was kind of birthed out of our own pain. Coming out of college I did not know I”d be in the SaaS space – I didn’t really know what the SaaS space was at that point! I graduated college 5 years ago with my roommate, a fellow lacrosse player, now a multiple business cofounder Gray Mackenzie, and when we came out we started a web design social media marketing agency that morphed into an inbound agency. We started following HubSpot and the all of the inbound content they had flowing out there. We really changed our agency a lot, and so we became an inbound marketing agency, and as we were growing that business we had this pain around organizing all the work that we were doing for our clients, but then even deeper than that, when we sold a retainer there was a whole bunch of deliverables that were mixed in. You know, we were really just going to be their outsource marketing department for 6 or 12 months, so we needed a system that could organize all that and help us keep track – once we sold them – of how the agency was actually running, and what do the operations look like? And what are the processes that drive all of this stuff?

So we started looking at all kinds of different project management tools, and I think I was just looking for a unicorn, or I would walk into something and everything would all of a sudden make sense, and it would all fall into place for me and I wouldn’t have to do any of the work. What I learned from that process was that you really have to create a framework first for your agency, or for your business, and then a software is just like a blank white board. You have to have a system that you put in there.

So, instead of just going and creating another blank white board, we decided to create DoInbound, which would be an opinionated software, kind of giving people a framework and a structure that they could start off of, giving them something that they could tweak and make their own. We really saw that as a gap in the marketplace, and, coming from our background as agency owners, we thought, ‘Hey, let’s serve this community specifically. It’s not massive, but, you know, if we can create a good reputation in this space, we can relate to people, we know their pains, maybe we can set ourselves apart from some of the big boys in the field.’

ANDY: Yeah, and it’s funny that you mention the blank slate of most project management tools, because it’s funny when I’ve looked into different tools for my clients – even for my personal life – it’s like, ‘Alright, I have this idea. I know I need more organization. I know I need X, Y and Z,’ and the tools will all promise that, and then you go in and it’s just like, ‘I have no idea where to even get started.

ANDREW: Yeah.

ANDY:  And I’ll try a few, and think, ‘Something’s going to be different in one of them.’ Nothing ever changes. So then I’ll find one and I think, ‘I just need to build this all myself within this tool and figure out how it works,’ and then it’s like, ‘Okay, this sucks. I don’t want to actually deal with this. This is horrible!’ So it’s not like there’s a shortage of tools for you to try out there, either. There’s so many out there. So, are you technical yourself?

ANDREW: [Laughs] No!

ANDY: Okay, so what was the development process of this? When you had the idea, when you knew something needed to change, how did you then go from that into actually creating the product?

ANDREW: Yeah, we’ve got a journey that was fun, but I don’t know if I’d do it again. We had a technical co-founder to start things off, who was a good friend, who wanted to learn, really, how to get into development. He was an engineer and had a technical background, and that was great for the first year or so, but once we got to… 

We sold the product really, really early. Like, far sooner than we probably should have, but we were running the agency as our primary company, our primary jobs, and this was kind of a side thing. So we got to that point really just getting basic functionality, basic app out there, validated the idea, had customers, but then really struggled to get the full set of features that we needed to satisfy the customers, and so that kind of brought us to ac crossroads that technical co-founder left to take a job at another company and we really embarked on a 6 month journey of trying to build our product team. That involved a lot of contractors. Our app’s built using Ember.js which, apparently, is really really cool from the dev side. I really like what it can do, but it’s really hard to find people who are good at using it. It’s an evolving platform so it’s changing a lot, and there’s not as many developers out there like there are for, like, AngularJS, or Backbone.js, or something like that. 

But now, at this point, we’ve got a product team of, like, I think we’re 6 people strong now?

ANDY: Oh, wow.

ANDREW: Yeah. We're all remote, spread out around the world. It’s been a slow journey up there, but we’re at a point now where we’re trying to crank through some things. I’m really excited about where the team is at.

ANDY: So you were using a profits from GuavaBox, from the agency, to bootstrap this? Is that accurate? 

ANDREW: Yeah that’s right. Everything started from GuavaBox first, whether it was ideas, or it was templates that came into the system. We were really just, like, franchising that agency through this software company, and a lot of people would come in and have our processes as a starting point. It was the processes from GuavaBox that funded everything. 

ANDY: At what point did it shift? Today, your primary focus is DoInbound, right?

ANDREW: Mm hmm.

ANDY: At what point did it shift?

ANDREW: May of 2015 is when we kind of came to the crossroads where we said, ‘We can’t do both of these things well. We need to pick one to focus on and kind of let the other one ride.’ So we looked at our core values as a team, we looked at where each of us wanted to go in terms of lifestyle and the things that made us excited, and that got us to decide, ‘Right, this SaaS model is more in-line with the type of company we want to build. if you really want to be successful in the agency world, you’ve got to build a big in-house team. Like, your ability to create is your rate-limiting factor. Whereas, on the SaaS side, if we build an efficient company, we can keep our team relatively small but satisfy a much larger volume of customers. So we really liked that value-lever there, that the SaaS platform gave us. So, in May of 2015, we buckled down, brought on Ryan Herman – who’s our head of growth – who does a lot of our demos and takes point on sales, prospecting and stuff. So yeah, we're just kind of cruising from there.

ANDY: And obviously having the inbound background gave you a pretty strong framework to work with when it comes to attracting customers to the business, but how, specifically, did you implement that inbound methodology in DoInbound? What were your main focuses from the beginning?

ANDREW: Again, it goes back to that narrow focus. The more focused you can be in the audience that your product serves, the faster you're going to gain traction with your inbound marketing strategy. There are only 10,000 marketing agencies in the world. Maybe 5-6,000 qualify as inbound or digital agencies. That’s a small pool, but if you put all those fish in a barrel and I start cranking out content towards them, like, that’s a lot easier than going after 500,000 different companies. 

So, for us, the tactics that worked really well were podcasting. The first podcast that we started is our flagship podcast called Inbound Agency Journey. Every week we come out with a new episode where we interview a successful inbound marketing agency owner, and it’s been cool in two ways. Number one, the inbound community is a global community but everyone’s kind of looking at each other, looking over their shoulder at their competition to see, like, ‘What are they up to? What’s the latest and greatest thing?’ So it’s really nice for that, because the agencies that are young and trying to go are trying to implement those processes. They’ve hit some success, they’re trying to figure out how to get to the next level, they’re listening to the podcast trying to gain experience from the guests and, you know, there's a value transfer that happens there where they look at DoInbound as the gateway to that authority, and some of that authority rubs off on us. So we just facilitate that conversation.

People will listen to the podcast for over a year before they reach out to us when they want to get a product demo set up, but that slow drip has been really helpful. Picking a target community, identifying the leaders in that community, and just interviewing them – that’s the best business decision I’ve ever made. It’s really launched the entire company.  

ANDY:  How so?

ANDREW:  It was our traction point because no-one was doing that out there, so the company was young, we were getting up and going… I think the podcast has been around for about 2 years now, and so we just started reaching out to the leaders in the space. Some of our friends – as agency owners, you know, we had friends out there who were running successful agencies – and just started putting them on the podcast, getting that show out there. Because it’s a small community, again, it really took off and got traction because… We wanted to create a content-resources where fi you were an inbound marketing agency owner with 2 to 5 clients, a team of 2 to 5 people, and you stumble on this podcast, you say, ‘Holy crap, where has this thing been my whole life?’ and that tab never gets closed on your browser because you're just bingeing that content. That’s the kind of experience that I wanted. 

Kind of the same thing that you’ve got going on here on this podcast. If I’m an owner of a SaaS company and I’m trying to get up and running, and I want to hear what the big boys are doing out there, I’ll come and listen to this. I’m just bingeing on it. That's the kind of experience I wanted to give people, and that’s what we were able to accomplish by bringing on these people who had been there before so these young owners could learn from their experiences. Then we spun from there and said, ‘okay, how do we create more content like this?’ So we created one show that was just made for account managers at design agencies, and another show that was designed just for people trying to generate business the agencies, and another show dedicated just for people who were trying to run agency operations. So we were trying to hit on every pain inside the agency ecosystem, and podcasting has been the winner because it’s such a scaleable tactic. It’s really easy to create lots of content with, sort of, one initial investment. 

ANDY:  As you’re saying all of this, I’m nodding my head in agreement but it’s like… When I first set out down the podcast road, my primary thinking was, ‘Okay, at HubStaff – one of my clients – it was like, alright, we have a huge segment of our customers who are agency owners and we don’t have any agency experts in our team. We had nobody to create content for them, but we… I’m tired of the bland content, the generic content that doesn’t say anything and we don't want to do that,’ and so, from my perspective, I was thinking, ‘Okay, why don’t I just interview the people who are experts and I’ll leverage their expertise to get content out there.’ All of those other benefits, I didn’t know of at the time, but they just got me more and more excited as I went deeper into it. For you, did you have a clear picture of all of these benefits before you got started? What was that like, when you first launched the podcast?

ANDREW:  Yeah, I think it took a few months to really see what we were sitting on because the third winner in the strategy is… I have no network. I have no audience built for DoInbound at this point. When the podcast is just getting started, you don’t have anything, so by interviewing people you instantly get access to their audiences. So, encouraging this guest to share the podcast with their list, you know, sharing it with their team, you know, ‘Put it on your LinkedIn account… Send it out on Twitter, schedule tweets out.’ That’s a big part of our strategy, getting the guests to really promote themselves. That works out well because if you’re on a podcast, you’re naturally inclined… You want to show the people where you’ve been. 

So yeah, I’d say we didn’t know. We thought it’d be a good idea right away, it’d be kind of a cool thing to do. We wanted to get into podcasting but it’s not really until you start seeing the results that you’re like, ‘Oh crap, this thing might actually work tout well.’

ANDY:  Right, and while you do have the audio of the podcasts, and that’s the soul of the podcast, you guys are also doing a bit of repurposing of the content into other formats. Can you speak to that?

ANDREW:  Yeah. So every show that comes out is obviously a blog post on your website. We’ve experimented both sides. We’ve done some pretty in-depth, like, long-form blog posts. We’ve also done some really short, recap, bullet-points. At this point, looking at our time on the pages, it’s more efficient to just do the bullet-points, but one thing we do when we’re listening to a podcast is we want to pull out the actionable quotes, or the quotable statements that a guest makes, and so we’re going to turn those into image graphics that we can put in the blog posts and we can also put out on social media, so you just have, like, a nice stock picture as your background and then the quote on it, and attribute it to the guest so they see that out there as well. That’s kind of a third piece of content, because you’ve also got the podcast on iTunes, all of the different podcasting channels that people listen to. So that’s another way to make it happen – make those quote graphics.
We then do, like, a weekly digest email where we send that out to the database with, ‘Hey, here’s the ugest from this week. By the way, here’s what you missed last week from our other 3 podcasts.’ So that's kind of a reason to hit people’s inbox every week with fresh content, and really, kind of, build up the authority or the likelihood that they’re going to open something because you’re delivering them someone else’s voice each week, and a fresh spin on a topic that you know is very important to everybody because you’re so focused in the type of podcast you create there. SO that’s helpful. 

Getting them on YouTube is another powerful channel, because a lot of people spend time there. So getting videos up on YouTube for different episodes is important too.

ANDY: What does a video look like? Is it just… Is it text? Is someone narrating? What does it look like?

ANDREW:  There’s 2 different kinds that you can roll out. Number 1 is just a plain up video podcast. So our agency toolbox that Gray runs is just a video of him walking through different tools, and that goes out as a podcast. It goes out as a YOuTube channel. And then also you can – this is not something we’ve done for every episode but something we need to do – is basically just take your audio, put it into a video editing software, put a placeholder image on there with just your logo – that’s something you can upload to YouTube. It’s indexed on YouTube, you can create playlists around it, you can kind of put it out there like that, so they’re listening to it on YouTube, they’re not watching anything, but it’s another way to just , kind of, repurpose the podcasting content.

ANDY: That’s true. I’ve heard that idea before, and I'm usually quick to write it off as, ‘Well, it’s not video – why is it on YouTube?’ but then at the same time as I’m saying that I have, like, music tabs open in YouTube and I’m not watching them either. So people use YouTube for audio, and just by putting it out there – and it’s not like that takes a lot of time to do either – so just putting that out there makes a huge difference.

ANDREW: Yeah, it’s huge. They’re already on there, they're searching on there, it's going to show up in related videos if they're searching for other things, so yeah, it’s a good spot to have your content.

ANDY: And then one question I hear all the time is, ‘Okay, I understand some of the benefits of building a network, of establishing authority through the podcast,’ but how do you actually turn a podcast listener into a customer?

ANDREW: Occasionally we’ll do sponsorship plugs, like, ‘Hey, this episode is brought to you by DoInbound, the all-in-one project and process management tool for inbound marketing agencies!’ You can do something like that, that’s great. we’ll plug it every now and then, just off-the-cuff. Our name is on there, but the thing that I hear from most people is, ‘Hey, I’ve listened to your podcast for months and then I was talking to someone at an agency meetup and mentioned your name. I never even went to your site and checked out what you did!’ So I think I could do a better job of getting people to the site, but when people do get to the site and either Ryan talks to them on a demo, or I’m talking to them on an onboarding call, they already know us. They know us so well because they’v ealready listened to us talk for sometimes months before they ever reached out to us. So it’s powerful when you get them on there. Obviously, get your site set up so that you’re converting people, either with invitations to the software, or you've got eBooks out there, or something to collect their email address so you can start following up with them that way. But the main thing we do is just random plugs on the podcast, occasional sponsorship blocks – nothing really more creative than that.

ANDY: Right, so it’s brand awareness to an extent, but also just top of funnel traffic generation? You're trying to bring people to the site—

ANDREW: Exactly.

ANDY: —where you already have, as an inbound agency, you already have all the lead magnets. You already have that piece of the puzzle set up, so once they are they're, you know people are going to move through your funnel and, with the different touch points from your team, you’re going to have a good chance of making them a customer.

ANDREW: Yeah, I guess that kind of adds to the hidden [UI 00:18:10] write that off, but yeah, get them to the website and then the website’s gonna take care of them from there, because we’ve got our different trip points and funnels built once they opt-in for whatever it is they’re interested in. 

ANDY: So at this point you have four podcasts, right? 

ANDREW:  Yes.

ANDY: I can only imagine what it’s like to manage that. Are you doing it all in-house? Are you outsourcing anything? What is that process like?

ANDREW: No, we do manage it all in-house. We manage 2 of them regularly. Inbound Agency Journey and Inbound Sales Journey are regular podcasts. Happy Clients Show, which is the one directed toward the account managers, we haven’t done an episode of that in a while. The Agency Toolbox, which Gray runs, we’ll put those out as new tools and things come up. But our process is pretty tight. We like to batch everything, so for Inbound Agency Journey when we do our journeys, Gray and I collaborate inside of a spreadsheet and we just, basically, work up all the names of people we want to get on the podcast, and then we divide and conquer by sending out invites to those folk. We just email them and get them took a time within a 2-week block, and so we like to crank out 12 episodes at a time. We have 12 episodes in a season. We get those recorded and batched together, then we can get the show notes all prepped for those. 

And we’ve done it both ways. We’ve worked with contractors to write show notes. To be honest, it’s a lot faster if we just write them ourselves and, kind of, bullet-point our notes after the interview, because you’re paying someone to re-listen to something. It’s hard to take time yourself to go and make it happen, but at the very least get our notes out there and then we’ll edit each other’s stuff to format it and get it the way we want it. Then batching all the artwork is really nice, because all the episodes are in place. I do all the podcast editing, so I can play get that into Audition, get that all cleaned up, get the intros and outros, save it, and then we use Podbean to manage all of our shows under one umbrella. They give you 5 RSS feeds there, so that’s what we use for that, and I upload them there because I get them scheduled. We obviously use DoInbound to manage the whole process!

ANDY: Right! That’s awesome, hearing how detailed the process is, because just for any listeners out there I can attest that if you don't have a clear process of what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, who’s responsible for it… all of that, you can do a podcast, but you're going to go crazy because there are just so many little moving pieces that need to be tracked, that need to be taken care of, and if you can get a handle on things, I’m not going to say it's easy, but it doesn’t have to be so bad. But without some rigor in your process, it’s going to be a horrible pain. 

ANDREW: Yeah.

ANDY: When you were figuring all this out, were there any big mistakes that you made along the way, that if you were to start over, you would have avoided?

ANDREW: Hmm… That’s a good question.

ANDY: Or just anything you’ve learned that would have made things easier from day 1?

ANDREW: Yeah… From day 1, you know, the power of process is huge. I tip-hat to Gray there, because right from the get-go we templated the interview questions that we asked people, and that makes it really easy to prep for an interview, because we walk people through the same framework of questions. ‘Give us your background. Share a success. Share a failure. Share a process that’s working well.’ We talk to them about their personal life and how they get ready to face the day every day. So you’ve got that same repeatable framework. That’s been a win. If you just sit there – I’m not trying to be Tim Ferris and get to know, like, these world-class people and drill into their source specifically – I want to know how does your story relate to the collective experience of this niche? 

So a standard framework for questions for that really helps out. And then it’s like this – we go wherever the rabbit trail takes us once we get on the podcast, but having a starting template is really, really helpful, and sending that to the guest with an audio checklist, like, ‘Here’s everything you need to prepare,’ right after they booked their time. That’s been a win. People have really complimented us on that, like, ‘This has been really helpful to get things set up and running.’ So that’s been good. I’m trying to think, like, ‘What do I wish we would have done from the beginning?’ Oh! Standardizing the artwork that you collect from a guest is something that I wish we did earlier. Into our confirmation emails, like, ‘Hey, send over a headshot at least 800 x 800 px,’ something like that, just to get that… We figured that out, like, after the first season, I think. Just standardizing the information you’re collecting from your guest. We leveraged Calendly at first, and then Acuity after that, to do the scheduling process for us and collect all that info. 

ANDY: Why did you switch from Calendly to Acuity?

ANDREW: It was a branding thing. This was, like, a year and a half ago we switched. I know Calendly’s come a long way since then, so that’s where that came in.

ANDY: I just wasn’t sure if there was some hidden feature that I was missing in Acuity. I was like, ‘Oh man, I gotta get rid of Calendly!’

ANDREW: Oh! No, no, I think it was more of a company-wide thing. I think we wanted to switch for some customizations that it gave us. That was on the operations side, so I can’t remember what it was, but both tools work really well. The end idea is how do you make a streamlined process for your guests to schedule time on your calendar, and how do you standardize the follow-up process so you’re collecting the right information at the right time? You know, Skype name, make sure they’ve got the time zone sorted out, they agree to terms… All that kind of stuff.

ANDY: Yeah, and these are all things that I’ve worked on. There are a few things, I’ll admit, that fall through the cracks on this. You talked about that. I went on vacation right in the middle of it all, and I came back and I was like, ‘Oh, man, I need to reach out to Andy. I’ve forgotten some of the outline!’ But luckily, I knew you were a pro and that you’d be able to pick things up and we would be fine, so I appreciate that!

ANDREW: Oh, we got this baby!

ANDY: But one thing i wanted to ask is that, like, getting the guest image almost scares me because I just think back to all of the agency owners that I hear gripe about how they hate having to ask clients for content and those sorts of things. There are always delays. So do you ever run into delays on their end in getting those types of things from the guest?

ANDREW: Definitely, we do from time to time, but at the end of the day, what sets agencies apart from everyone else is they love to talk about themselves – and I’m in that boat! You know, I’ve got my headshot ready to roll so if anyone needs it, it's right there. IT’s a professional headshot. I think agencies just have their act together a little bit more than their clients do because of the nature of the beast, where they're always chasing their clients for content. At the end of the day, with a business owner it’s always hard to get on their radar and get them to do something. That’s why we try to get that from them right away, when they’re scheduling the interview, or right after I talk to them (or Gray talks to them). Those are the 2 prime times to hit them, when they’re most engaged, just like when you’re following up with a lead. Like, they just submitted the contact form, so now’s the time to pick up the phone. So yeah, just follow up with them as soon as they take an action, whether it’s automated or manual. That’s the best play to get their attention.

ANDY: Interesting. That makes perfect sense. So one thing I want to ask, to start to wrap things up a little bit, is that if you give some advice to a startup founder who’s been thinking about launching a podcast, and hopefully we haven’t completely discouraged them with all the moving pieces involved, but if you were to give that founder some advice, what would it be, on how to get started?

ANDREW: Hopefully the founder’s in a niche and you're serving a very specific group of people who have a very specific pain. I would then say, ‘Okay, who would that audience, whose pain I’m trying to solve, listen to? And how can I tap into their expertise and their networks to help promote their message?’ Because the brand awareness and everything is just going to kind of flow naturally from that point. Again, try to create that Netflix for your niche. Some place they want to go, and just binge on your content because it’s so focused and so specialized on what they’re looking for. Make the jump. You’re going to learn, like… You’ve heard both of us talk, here, like, our processes improve over time. It doesn’t have to be perfect from the start, by any means, but just go for it. Start talking to people. Get some interviews out there, and the more focused you are, the more different (in a good way) you’re going to be from every other voice out there.

ANDY: Right. Like, it’s going to be very difficult to start… Like, say you were Trello, or some tool that really doesn’t have a core market. It’s everybody and anyone who needs some sort of PM… I don’t even know if PM is the right category for it, but anyone who could use this tool it’s going to be really hard to stand out in the crowd when the podcast space is pretty packed.

ANDREW:  Yeah.

ANDY: But when you have a really clearly-defined niche, like inbound agencies, 1, you’re going to be able to know exactly who to talk to and who to reach out to to get content that your customers want to hear and, ultimately, that’s what it all comes down to, is creating good content that your customers want to listen to, and the more homogeneous those customers are, the easier that will be.

ANDREW:  Amen.

ANDY:  Yeah. And so, to wrap up every interview, I just like to ask a few quick questions. You don't need to put too much thought into this. I’m not trying to trip you up. Just whatever comes to mind. The first one is: what do you currently spend too much time doing? 

ANDREW: Onboardings. Spending time walking people through answering the same questions. It’s not a waste of time, because I love talking to customers, but it's a waste of my time because I’m answering the same questions over and over again and it’s a waste of their time because they have to book a time with me, and they may have to wait 2 or 3 days to make it happen. So I spend way too much time doing that. That’s something we need to automate, and if people want personal service, that’s something they should pay a premium for.

ANDY: Okay, so you see it down the road as being something where it’ll be like almost a one-off consulting arrangement?

ANDREW: Yeah, exactly.

ANDY: And then, if you were to get all that time back, what would you dedicate that to? What, right now, needs more of your time?

ANDREW: More of this, to be honest. More podcasting for the company, just getting our voice out there, talking to more potential customers, really just kind of the awareness-stage stuff is where more of my time needs to be spent.

ANDY: Nice. And what are you hoping to accomplish in the next quarter?

ANDREW: The product team has grown a lot over the last 6 months, so the last 3 months have been really, really cool just to see our roadmap. It’s like 4x speed compared to what it was before this team was assembled. So we’re putting some key features in place that kind of help set us apart in the PM space from the big boys out there. So I’m really, really excited about that.

ANDY: And then, long-term, where do you see DoInbound? You already talked about how you’re not necessarily trying to build another HubSpot. You’re fine with going after… Honestly, not a small market, especially if you can command good rates – which you do – but what is the ultimate goal for DoInbound?

ANDREW: Yeah, our ultimate goal is to build a company that we could, you know, comfortably run for as long as we want to. That’s our goal, because we find that if we can do that, then there’s going to be opportunities to sell. We made a decision early on not to go get funding, that we wanted to control everything, that we wanted to control the destiny there, so my rough goal for 3 years is if I can get 500 people to pay me an average of $200 a month, I’ve got a million-dollar company right there. So that’s my short-term goal. if I can get there and keep the team, the flexibility, the lifestyle – again, those things that dictated us to move in this direction to begin with – that’d be fantastic. 

ANDY: Awesome. And do you think things are looking like they’re on track for that? Obviously 5 years is a hard time to map out to, but are you happy with where things are going right now?

ANDREW: Yeah, I’m really happy the way things are going right now. Obviously there are always things you can do better. I want to get our churn down. I want to get more leads into the funnel, but the product team is the biggest win for me, because you can have the best ideas in the world, but if you can’t deliver on those ideas, no-one’s going to stick around for long. So getting that product team established with some rock stars on there who are not just good at their job but it’s ag reat team of people working together and it’s really exciting… That’s a win. And then, just continuing to serve a community is big for us. The podcasts are huge. Speaking is huge. Just helping people out in any way that we can. All of our product launches, we like to create awesome content, so even if someone doesn’t buy, you know, there’s stuff that they want to save for a long time and come back to. If I can help somebody out, everyone’s always looking to reevaluate their product management tool every 6 or 3 months… [Laughs.]

ANDY: Right! 

ANDREW: If we can be there, helping them out, that’s where we want to be.

ANDY: Right. It’s the inbound mindset. Be helpful. Generally, help people get what they’re trying to do done, and if if you can stay top-of-mind, and with your content you’ve been doing that, I’m sure you’ll get to those goals. So, honestly, Andrew, you’ve shared a ton with us. If people want to follow along on your journey, see more of what you’re up to, where is the best place for them to go?

ANDREW: You can head over to DoInbound.com/podcast to kind of check out the podcasts that we’re putting out over there. You can hit me up on Twitter – I’m @AndrewJDymski, to reach out to me personally. Those are the 2 best places to go.

ANDY: Awesome! Andrew, thanks so much for your time today.

ANDREW: My pleasure, Andy. Thank you!